that was in anticipation of the first debate on msnbc mott rated by chris matthews. each person had a role, i was the one who had to play the role of chris matthews and others up there -- which no one can play chris matthews. >> particularly someone with your complexion. but keep going. >> we have a lot in common. but the interesting thing is you have people up there representing the different candidates, and you get to see the candidate behind the scenes prepping, and what they do is you run them through the paces. you have the timing just the way it would be on the stage with the moderator just where they would be sitting. you run them through a series of questions and answers and you see how they do and you critique afterwards. >> is the conclusion though it wasn't very effective because, of course, mr. romney didn't do so well in 2008, did he? >> i don't think it was his debate preparation that was the problem. i think it was a whole variety of issues, of course, but that's why he's ready this time and, of course, you see the gentleman who is going to be playing